The Basement Hangout
The Basement Hangout
Martin Willis from Podcast UFO and the Congressional UFO Hearings
Martin Willis from Podcast UFO, one of the premier UFO podcasts, joins the hangout. We discuss his experience at the congressional UFO hearings, which he attended in person, and what it all might mean for UFO disclosure going forward.
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Episode Transcript

Chad: What's up, beautiful people. Welcome to the basement hang out coming to you from somewhere in American suburbia. My name is Chad and absent tonight is Bob. We were just about to record and he got a call from his wife. She was having retinal detachment. So we wish her best of luck and hopefully everything's all right.

He's headed to go meet her at the hospital. Um, we had a guest tonight, Martin Willis from podcast UFO. We're just gonna, we're just gonna push forward. Martin, how are you doing tonight? I'm doing

Martin Willis, Podcast UFO: great. I'm really sorry to hear about Bob's wife. I hope, hope that works out. Okay. Yeah, this is all real time. It just happened just now.

Chad: Yeah, we had some technical snafus and then in the middle of trying to get everything solved, uh, Bob got a phone call and, uh, that's what was going on. So here we are. So Martin, uh, I wanted to get right into it. Uh, obviously the big news around the UFO community has been the disclosure that appears to be happening right in front of our eyes.

Martin Willis, Podcast UFO: I would say so. There's a lot going on. It's really exciting. Well, this is the third time I've been on and thank you for the invite. Um, it, it just seems like, you know, in all the years that I've been paying attention to this topic and, you know, doing a show podcast on it. Uh, this is by far the most exciting time.

And, uh, and 12 years and, uh, the 12 years I've been doing the show, there's real momentum going on here. And, uh, I, I was, I've been excited about this whole thing to begin with. And then, you know, you hear these, uh, testimonies. And I'm sure you heard all about this David Grush

and his claims that are extraordinary, you know, possible non human craft the government may be aware of and maybe compartmentalized And to private programs that are funded, so they don't have congressional oversight. So last week, I, uh, a week and a half or so, I got up one morning and a friend that I have is a F 16, uh, fighter pilot, retired.

He lives in Portugal, and...

Chad: Oh, yeah, we've had him on the show. Oh, you've had Chris Slito. He's awesome. Yeah, yeah, and actually he's going to be coming on, uh, sometime in the near future.

Martin Willis, Podcast UFO: Yeah, Chris is great. So, Chris and I became friends. I was a... First one, he almost didn't come on my show because he said, Oh God, do I really want to take that leap and go on a UFO show?

Right. Uh, but he never looked back. And, uh, so I saw, uh, an email from him saying, well, I'm going over to, I'm going to Washington to go to the hearing. And I said, Hey, heck. I live, uh, part time down in South Carolina where I am now, and it was like, if he can do it, I'll, I'm gonna do it. So we met up, we did a couple shows there, and boy, what a, what a time, what an excitement.

And, um, we basically had to get there, we got there at 5. 40 a. m., and I got there and I was just testing out my, uh, microphone and everything. And all of a sudden I look and coming right, walking right at me is Representative Tim Burchett. Are you familiar with, uh, how he's been handling this whole topic?

Chad: Well, I mean, I saw his, uh, portion of the congressional hearing.

Martin Willis, Podcast UFO: Yeah. So he's, he was going to be chairing it until... Uh, the night before, and, uh, I think he pissed someone off, basically, and he sort of got bumped out of that. But, you know, I asked him right off the bat, you know, why, why did you get bumped? And, you know, he said, oh, it's just politics and let's focus on the big picture here and.

And so he actually knew of my podcast, which makes me realize that he's really looking into the topic. He's not just, you know, it's not just a surface thing. Right? So, uh, so we're there at 5.

Chad: So you got there at 5 a. m.

Martin Willis, Podcast UFO: 5 a. m. because I, I understood there was only 30 seats. Well, there was actually a lot less than that because the VIPs took a lot of those spaces.

Yeah. So, uh, very, very, very lucky to get in the door. It was, it was so close. Um, and Randall Nickerson who did the Ariel phenomenon, it was, that's a, um, a movie. That's a wonderful movie out there. That's about these school, school children. Back in 1994 that had an encounter with beings and all that, you know, uh, in South Africa, he was there and I talked to him on the phone the night before.

And I said, well, what time are you getting there? And he said, I'm here now, and I'm not going. He stayed there starting at 9 o'clock the night before, wow, stayed overnight. And the funniest thing about that, he's a, he's a character. He's a, he's a great guy. Uh, he got up into the front row because he was number one in line.

And, uh, he's sitting in the front row and he, he fell asleep. He kept falling asleep during the people were nudging him on each side, waking him up, he said, the stenographer was giving him a, giving him a dirty look when he was snoring and, uh, you know, when you wake up from snoring, so, uh, we're there super early and, uh, to make sure we'd get in and then, uh, we had.

A strategy we had, uh, our name was on a list, which didn't matter at all. I kind of got tossed out somewhere along the line.

Chad: But how did you even get on that list?

Martin Willis, Podcast UFO: Well, we just said some guy was organizing it and he seemed to be very, uh, capable and understood exactly how things work. So I was, uh, I was, uh, Donna was, uh, 17.

I was 18 on the list. Donna is my producer girlfriend. And so we both knew that we were going to get in because there's 30 seats, but I had no idea what the VIP and when I say VIP, um, I know, uh, an animal that was up there and a few other people like that. They were sitting in the front row. Uh, but, uh, we're there at that early and then all of a sudden I hear this commotion and in line, we're in the building at this point.

And I hear this commotion. I turn, it's like, uh, 9 30, the doors open at 10 and I look and there's all these lights and cameraman. And there's, uh, George Knapp and Jeremy Corbell doing their cock walk in front of everybody. And, uh, and it was, it was pretty, pretty funny to see. Well, they it's, it's who, you know, you know, so in Washington or whatever.

Chad: So who do they know? That's the question. I mean, they're UFO producers, basically. Yeah, you know, how does that get

Martin Willis, Podcast UFO: you anywhere? I don't know, but they're bookending David Grush, the key witness, right? So if you look anywhere on, you know, any of the the pictures or any of the film on the hearing itself, you'll see David Grush in the center and you'll see George Knapp on one side.

There's David Grush's lawyer in the middle. You don't see him Uh, because David Rush is a big guy and then on the other side, you see Jeremy Corbell.

Chad: Yeah. So, uh, we, we watched, we watched the entire hearing and we did an episode where we went over a lot of the key moments and played the video and you see Jeremy Corbell back there the whole time.

He looks like kind of disheveled. He's wearing like a t shirt. Yes. And the big beard, which he immediately, I noticed he, cause I saw him in interviews on, I don't know if it was MSNBC or what, like later, and he shaved it clean. But for the hearing. Oh really? Yeah. He had this big disheveled beard and I was like, is he, is he trying to make a statement or what?

Martin Willis, Podcast UFO: I don't know. He's there nodding the whole time. I could see him nodding the whole time, right?

Chad: Like, Oh, I know this. I've been involved. That's how I took it.

Martin Willis, Podcast UFO: Yep. So I, I, I grabbed my camera and well, I said to the person at the door, well, I should just say this. So the door is open and I'm seeing people coming in from the left out of nowhere.

Now, Leslie Cain gets to go in and she shows up late. And Danny Sheehan, who's a Harvard lawyer that's done a lot of work in the UFO world. He like skits right in there. And, uh, so all these people are, I start to get concerned. And just before we went in, there was like 5 or 6 people in line in front of us.

I knew everybody in line. I was talking to everybody because I was there since so early. And all of a sudden I said, hey, where did you people come from? They said we were there and I said, I don't think so. I don't, I don't remember you. So a reporter came up to me and said, what time did you get there? And I said, well, I was here at 540 a.

m. Wow. And she asked the girl next to us, the 1 in front of us, what time did you get here? She said, 720 and I go, ah, so. So we're, we're ready to go in the door and more of the people that were with them showed up. So there was like 3 more people all of a sudden show up and I said, hey, hey, what's going on here?

And they said, oh, we're with them. And I said, wait a minute. What's going on here? So I get up to the door and they said, 6 chairs left and I go, wait. These people cut in front of my life. Like I really totally like these people got here at seven 30 or whatever. I was here at five 40. You got to let us in.

So it scared out three of them off. And it was myself, Donna and Chris Lito, uh, snuck in. Chris was the very last person to sit down. Oh, wow. And so we made it in that close, even getting there at 5 30 and the 4 girls behind us that we got to know in line, they were there at like 6 or 7 or whenever, and they didn't even get in those people that snuck in, got in ahead of them.

So that's such a shame. Yeah. So Donna was giving them brief the whole time until they finally left. But, uh, they were looking at their phones the whole time. They weren't even paying attention.

Chad: And for Corbell and his, uh, what's his name to do a cock walk in front of everybody else? Yeah, I don't get it.

Like, what is, what is the deal?

Martin Willis, Podcast UFO: You know, I don't understand how that happened, but, uh, yeah, I, I didn't, but, uh, I, I guess it is. Oh yes. And there's also, I don't know if you'd heard of Sean Ryan. Do you happen to know who that is? No. Sean Ryan's an, uh, I think he's an ex, uh, Navy SEAL, and he's got a very, very popular YouTube channel with, like, almost 2 million followers.

Oh, wow. And he decided, uh, within the last few months that he's gonna get into the UFO world. So he's, like, getting all these interviews and whatever, so... Uh, all of a sudden, just before the doors open, I turn around and there he is standing in our line and but he's still behind me quite a ways. And so I took Chris to say, hey, Chris, that's Sean Ryan.

Let's go up and, you know, and introduce ourselves. So. I went up to him and said, hey, Sean, the strong Ryan, right? And he goes, no, I don't know who you're talking about. It was actually him. Oh, my gosh. When I left, he, he told Chris. Yeah. Yeah. I'm Sean Ryan. And yeah, I do the show. Whatever.

Chad: He thinks he's Tom Cruise or something.


Martin Willis, Podcast UFO: Yeah. So, I know the egos are amazing. So, we're sitting in the back row and I look in like 3 and a half rows. Over, you know, over to the, to the right of me and 3 rows in front of me is Sean Ryan. Somehow he got in ahead of us and I have no idea how that happened. So, I guess it's really people just get really forceful to get in, but get this.

There were over 1000 people. In that line waiting to get in and they only had 30 seats. Holy cow. You know, that's by design. If you ask me, well, yeah, but you know,

Chad: I'm not surprised because there's so many people who, you know, are just pining for the truth, right. And what's going on. And for the first time, we're not just a bunch of wackos.

Talking about UFOs, you know what I mean?

Martin Willis, Podcast UFO: Yeah, no, no. I feel that way. It felt like sort of like a vindication, but also it just felt like, um, everyone was taking it serious. Right down to the reporters to the people that were staff, you know, trying to keep things organized, right? There were no tinfoil hats there, you know, there may have been a couple of wackos But there'd be a couple of wackos no matter what you do.

Chad: Yeah, that's true.

Martin Willis, Podcast UFO: Yeah, exactly so I got to meet a lot of fans that was really a lot of fun and I'm standing in line. All of a sudden, uh, this camera crew comes up and they said, we're looking for a Martin and hopefully I was the right Martin and it was a CNN. So, oh, wow. So they, they interviewed me and then, uh, Chris, you know, since you had him on the show and I'm teasing him a lot about this.

All of a sudden he goes, Hey, I do a show and and he talked them into interviewing him as well. He's such a card, but he did a nice job in the interview, but I don't think it's out. I think they just took the reels and I don't know if they're going to do anything with him. Eventually. Not. They didn't give it too much coverage.

They were on the night that night we watched in the hotel room and, you know, they were giving just a couple minutes of coverage here and there. And it's it's too bad to me. It seems like it would be such a major.

Chad: Yeah, I mean, you know, we did this whole thing when Grush first came out in the Ross Coulthard interview and we reviewed that couple of things.

Number one, the response from everybody. And I mean, I'm talking about people. I know my, even my wife, it was just crickets. It was like nothing happened. Right?

Martin Willis, Podcast UFO: I know. I know. That's the way I feel. And I've been talking to people all over like you didn't hear it. No.

Chad: Right. But then when I explained it, I still just got a blank stare.

Like, Oh, yes. Okay.

Martin Willis, Podcast UFO: You know what it is. As soon as you start mentioning alien, alien bodies and craft, everybody's like gets glassy eyed. They, they don't, they don't, they can't even imagine it. You know, it's, it's like too much.

Chad: Well, it's amazing though, because all the shows on TV, the history channel, ancient aliens, star Trek, you know, the shows about abductions that, you know, kind of glorify it and they add their little Hollywood, their cheap Hollywood, you know, reels and all this and that.

And people watch it. It's popular. That's why they keep producing it. But then here it is We're at the point where we're getting basically confirmation Not only is the ufo thing real we are not alone in the universe, which changes the paradigm of everything And people have no reaction because it's so strange, isn't it?

It is but I think it's you know until they see a ufo. I hate to use this old Analogy, but White House lawn land on the White House lawn. It doesn't mean anything. I think people still don't believe grush I still think they probably think this is all theatrics and until they see it. They're not gonna believe it I mean, I don't know what else we could produce

Martin Willis, Podcast UFO: Well, I have a, I have a witness coming up on September 5th that is going to get a lot of coverage.

There's already a, there's already a major publication. That's going to get involved this. Is a, uh, an ex Marine who is in Peru in 1997, and he was involved in what's called projects laser strike. I'm not sure exactly what that project was, but it was in Peru. American Marines were there and. Uh, he was told that there was a crash site that they had to get to.

So, his platoon and himself, they drove and hummers 5 hummers. Out for about 3 hours to get to the site and then climbed 2 sergeants and him were like the lead point or whatever you want to call it. And they were ahead of the rest of the platoon and up over a hill. And he saw this craft. He said it does.

It definitely wasn't. Of this world that was like crashed into this ledge, and there was some damage on the top, he said, almost like it had been hit by something. He's he's has seen other things that were hit by missiles. And that's what his 1st thought was. So he's looking at he's looking at this thing.

Now, he was vetted back in 2003 by Leslie came and he's being re vetted again, just to make sure everything's kosher. I've had, um, there's an old interview out there in 2003, and I've had. Uh, I've had an ex FBI agent and also a New York City detective, you know, look at the interview and watch his body language.

And both of them said the same thing. No red flags, no indicators of lying. No, you know, nothing to be suspicious about. The guy tells great detail on his story. So, this guy's coming up on my show. He feels like now, after all this is happening, he doesn't want to go to the government. He doesn't want to testify, does not trust the government.

But he feels comfortable. Uh, I talking to him all the time, trying to make him at ease and I've known him about about him for about 3 years. Oh, wow. And now David Grush after David Grush has come out. He feels so it's it's time for him to talk about it. Yeah. So, just a couple of other odd things about this craft that I've never heard before.

Well, just 1 thing in particular. Is this thing had, like, a fluid dripping out and going down over the rocks. And the fluid was a strange viscosity and changing different colors, constantly changing colors. I mean, I've never heard anything like that. And then he went up to where the crash was and the damage was, and he actually had, you know, this is always where people go, whatever, but there were beings in the craft, and he actually had Some type of non verbal communication with them.

Really? Yep. And then he was stagged by these, these people were there in, uh, black, uh, camouflage. No insignia. They were speaking, they were Americans. And he has no idea what type of special forces they were, but they said, you didn't see this. And they shackled him up, and he was kept in, uh, some type of, uh, confinement for about two weeks.

And was basically brainwashed. And, you know, you are not going to talk about this ever and, you know, blah, blah, blah. Wow. It's really a fascinating story. And I, I'm really looking forward to, uh, this is going to be a monumental.

Chad: That does sound fascinating. Yeah. Will he come on the basement hangout after he comes on your show?

Martin Willis, Podcast UFO: Yeah, I don't think he's going to be doing any circuits. Very, very, very careful and very skittish is the best word. I hear he's had things happen. Uh, when he spoke before and he's, he's really concerned it's going to happen again. Okay. So, uh, he's not, he's not in any way, you know, if I offered him a thousand bucks to do the show with him and he would be insulted and you know, I'd never hear from them again.

It's nothing to do with money or anything. He doesn't want any fame or any money. He just wants a story to get out there.

Chad: Now how many times do you offer a thousand bucks? Cause I can come up with a story if.

I'll come on every week.

Martin Willis, Podcast UFO: There's only been a couple of situations where I considered it. Right. And, um, I did have someone on that was really, uh, many years ago that was, uh, worth it because it was really basically the only interview with him that really pops up now. Still.

Chad: Oh, wow. That's cool. So speaking of Grush, I do want to say that when he did the Ross Coldheart interview, I have to be honest.

There was something about his demeanor that rubbed me the wrong way.

Martin Willis, Podcast UFO: Well, you're not the only one. There are people that have said stuff like that. And, um, you know, I, I think, you know, people have put out there, well, you know, the guys, you know, the guy's a great guy. He's, he's, uh, honest, he's reputable. Um, he's credible.

But he's, he's like on the spectrum, he's got something going on, you know, where he's, you know, not the average person. So, and you find that a lot with high intelligence, whether it's Asperger's or whatever it is they have going on, there's, there's something.

Chad: Oh, it's just so people, is that what people think?

Martin Willis, Podcast UFO: That's that's I've heard this by a few different people.

Chad: Like that people that have been around him that he may actually have Asperger's or they're just not really.

Martin Willis, Podcast UFO: I'm not really sure. I'm trying to think of who who has mentioned that to me. Um, you know, I have talked to bright price and communicate with Roscoe heart, but not not in that, but not with that in particular.

Okay. Um, but I don't know. I. I think his, I felt pretty confident that he, he was not, well, I'll put it this way. No one is going to go under oath, testify under oath in front of a congressional hearing and be bullshitting.

Chad: That's how I feel about it. So this is what I was going to say. When he did the Ross Coulthard interview, and I love Ross, we had him on our show once, it was a fantastic episode.

Um, but I something about Grush rubbed me the wrong way and I couldn't put my finger on it and I was trying to explain it to the other guys on the show and they were, you know, they were not with me on it. They were like, come on, man, this guy wouldn't come out and say all this and risk his entire career and life and everything.

And I said, I don't know. There's just something that's. Not right about him. I'm not sure I believe him. And then when, but I'll tell you, when he did the testimony in front of Congress, and I know he swore in and everything, but regardless of that, I found him way more credible, just his entire demeanor. He was confident in what he was saying.

His body language to me was on the up and up. And I'm not a trained expert, obviously on body language, but I went from, I'm not quite sure to, okay, this guy's legit. This guy has the goods.

Martin Willis, Podcast UFO: I'm going to show you this on the screen. I don't know if you can see it, but I'm going to pop that up.

Chad: Uh, I don't see it yet.

I think I didn't need to make you a presenter.

Martin Willis, Podcast UFO: Oh, okay. All right. All right. No problem. I've got a picture of, uh, Me shaking hands with him after the hearing. Uh, and it's funny. I, when I saw him walk and I put my camera, I had my video camera up, up to me. So, and I was, I was yelling his name and he's looking all around like an assassin has found him.

And, uh, then he sees where it's coming from and then he comes and shakes my hand, which was nice.

Chad: That's cool. So the most interesting part to me from the testimony from the congressional hearings, and I know there was, you know, discussion of all kinds of things, but to me the most interesting part, and I can't remember the Congresswoman's name.

I think I have it here. Was it, uh, let's see here. Yeah. Nancy Mase. Yes. Nancy Mase. Yeah. When she asked him basically, and I'm paraphrasing who we drag up in front of Congress, And he said, I will give you a list of cooperative and hostile witnesses. And she said, okay, when can you provide that? And he said, I'll give it to you after this.

And I was like, Oh damn, he's not messing around.

Martin Willis, Podcast UFO: Well, I really think it. And, um, she also asked him where these beings human or non human he says very loudly non human. Okay, yeah, I thought that was a 1 of the big moments myself. Um, so, yeah, he's not messing around and let's just hope from what I understand behind the scenes here that.

Everybody is watching that will come forward as thinking about coming forward. The first hand witnesses, that is, they're waiting to see how Grush has been treated. Now, right off the bat, uh, Sean Kirkpatrick, who heads the AARO, uh, the Aldo, I mean, not Aldo, I mean, uh, yeah, Aldo, I mean, Anomaly, uh,

Chad: Resolution Office,

Martin Willis, Podcast UFO: Resolution Office, yeah, he has a scathing letter right away.

That, you know, that Grush was insulting him and, you know, all this stuff. Well, there's been no, no reciprocation from Kirkpatrick, uh, even though, you know, I mean, what I'm getting at is just seems like it's almost like Kirkpatrick has a job to do and that job is to put the fire out. Right. And that's, that's the way I'm feeling about it.

And, you know, the last time AARO. updated their Twitter feed was July 2022. So they're not exactly very active into really looking at what's going on. And, uh, as my friend Chris Lito points out, they've never even talked to David Fravor or Ryan Graves. Right. You know, I mean, those are the key witnesses and no one from Arrow was there at the hearing.

I would think that Um, you know, they, they didn't have to be there, of course, but I would think that it would be very important for them to be there and observe this whole thing firsthand, but they were not there.

Chad: Yeah. And then we have the NASA panel that basically said we have no evidence of anything.

Right. And you know, we're all just kind of shaking our heads. Like, come on, are you guys serious right now? I mean, that's all you have to say. You, you convene this panel. You talk for four hours or whatever it was, and then you just say, we have no evidence of anything. Yeah, and that was what, like a month before Grush came out in the cold hard interview, or maybe not even a month, like a couple of weeks.

Martin Willis, Podcast UFO: Yep. Yep. That's right. And I had heard about. Of that Grush was coming out, but I had no, I didn't know his name. I heard about the situation and, uh, and I heard about it for a few weeks ahead of time, but I had no idea that had to do with, you know, possible crash retrieval because as such a, uh, well, that's such a hard thing to, you know, especially for people on the outside that are paying attention to this, that topic.

Is, you know, the first thing that comes to mind, well, how the hell could they crash? You know what I mean?

Chad: That's always been my question. Always been my, and I'll tell you what, Grush's answer to that does not satisfy me. And what was that? Oh, he said, anytime you have sorties, a certain percentage are going to have failures and crash.

And that holds true for ETS. And to me, that is not, that's not sufficient. That's not a sufficient answer because they have the technology. So let's say they're not coming from a million light years away. Let's say they are interdimensional. They're here around us all the time. The bottom line is they have, you know, ridiculous technology.

It's hard for me to imagine why they would just all of a sudden crash. And to say that, well, a certain percentage, albeit small, it's going to happen in, in any. Anytime you're flying, I need I need more than that. And it may just be that he doesn't know

Martin Willis, Podcast UFO: and yeah, I mean, I would guess that that's definitely it that he doesn't know.

I mean, who would know, you know, but, uh, some of the theories out there that I've heard over the years of the possibilities. Are interesting, like, uh, perhaps they were not ready for something primitive that we are primitive technology, which is primitive to them. Uh, they somehow interact and interfere with some type of navigational things that they just weren't prepared for.

You know, I mean, there's there's all there there is possibilities, but it is. Like, like you said, their, their technical abilities obviously are so far advanced of ours. I mean, some of the things I'm, I know you're, you're aware of, uh, no sonic booms when, you know, they accelerate it many thousands of miles an hour, Mach 7 instantly, uh, right hand turns.

Uh, several thousand miles an hour or stopping and quickly turning or whatever it is they do all these things that don't make sense or no splashes when they go into the water. Um, no sound, no, uh, obvious propulsion, you know, all these things are just so bizarre and unexplainable. Um, you know, it makes you wonder how they could possibly, if they could do the things that they do.

Chad: So one of the theories I've heard, and of course there's no evidence for this, but one of the theories I've heard is that they basically use the magnetic lines, if you will, of the earth to traverse. And that's why they'll fly mostly in straight lines. But as we know, the magnetic Field of the earth has been changing.

We have, we have news of the earth's core has slowed in its spinning. We have, um, solar activity has been increasing, uh, with, um, CMEs or whatever, uh, the coronal mass ejections and all that kind of stuff is going on in the atmosphere. And if you think about it, the sightings and including what the DoD has released, what Arrow has released, we've gone from these, um, craft, whether they're triangles, like what's behind you in your, in your image there.

Or the classic, uh, you know, saucer UFO to these orbs, which are much smaller and look more like unmanned probes. Right. But they're still outside of our ability technologically. So the theory being that they're sending these probes because they are not able to traverse our atmosphere and our inner atmosphere like they did because of the changes that are going on.

And maybe It was a learning exercise where they had these crashes because all the, all of these changes with, you know, what's going on with our magnetism, whatnot. I am not Avi Loeb. So what I'm saying is probably complete nonsense, but you see what I'm saying?

Martin Willis, Podcast UFO: Well, yeah. I mean, your theory, that theory is as good as anyone else's, you know, we, we absolutely do not know.

Chad: Martin. I will take that to heart.

Martin Willis, Podcast UFO: Well, it's what makes us. Whole topic so fascinating, right? Because, you know, I mean, I, I love hearing people's ideas of what we may be experiencing and what other people are, uh, you know, witnessing around the world. And, and, you know, I mean, I, uh, I, I think of what I saw, you know, years ago.

Was sort of mundane compared to a lot of things that, you know, people have seen, but, uh, it's still to me it, you know, the very first thing I thought of is this is whatever it is. It's not from here. Yeah, for sure.

Chad: So, Martin, let's take a quick break. I've had 1 too many seltzers and I want to just check with Bob and see how everything's going with his wife and we'll be right back.

Yeah. All right. Welcome back. Beautiful people. Did you hear Lou Elizondo made a statement on a podcast recently where he was asked why the secrecy? Why you know, is, is this slow quote unquote, slow disco disclosure happening? And his answer was to the effect of, and I'm going to paraphrase, I'm probably going to murder this, but imagine you're a general.

And everything you know is the defense of the country. And you know, because even in your offensive operations. You do reconnaissance, you send probes, you have satellite imagery, you do your homework before the attack. So let's say you're going to invade Iraq, for example, and you're doing all of this work ahead of time and you're trying to do it surreptitiously without giving the enemy the forehand knowledge of your plans.

And as soon as your enemy knows that, you know, and everybody knows what your, uh, attack plans are because they've now seen your reconnaissance, they now have to go, the attack has to begin immediately. And his point was the generals are saying this looks like reconnaissance. This looks like pre attack preparation.

And we can't let on that we know what it is, because if we do, if we just announced to the general population that we know about aliens, we've been trying to, you know, reverse engineer with the hopes of protecting ourselves from a future attack. We can't let that out because as soon as they know that we know, and we've announced it writ large, the attack will begin.

He basically alluded to that, which was a scary prospect. It sounds like it's come straight out of Hollywood. And I don't know that he was saying that's what it is, but he was saying, imagine you're a general and that's your frame of reference.

Martin Willis, Podcast UFO: That is really something I have not heard. I have not heard that quote by him.

I know that's kind of what happened at Pearl Harbor. They were going to do 1 thing and then they missed took a signal and decided to that they were seen and had to attack. In a different way, you know, that type of thing. So no, I have not heard that. And by the way, Louis, uh, actually found in the back of one of my videos, he was, he was at the hearing and, uh, and, uh, I had spoke to his wife like a couple of nights ahead of time and he was not going to be there, but he did show up.

But anyway, I haven't heard that. And I really do want to, I want to find that clip. So perhaps after the show, I. Yeah, that's really interesting. He alluded to something, um, on another show, and I asked him the last time I spoke with him to clarify it a little more. And I never really got a really good answer, but his.

His thoughts were something along the lines. What if whatever they are have been here and they're here right now among this type of thing all along something along those lines, right? And what if they, if we have no control and they're a much higher intelligence and they're right here and that to me sounds almost like interdimensional or something.

I mean, it's. It's, uh,

Chad: I think David Grush alluded to that though, or he didn't even alluded.

Martin Willis, Podcast UFO: I did hear him mention some things.

Chad: He basically just said it, uh, during the congressional hearing that there are theories. And then I think the congressman asked him, is this your theory? And he said, no, but this is what's theorized in some of the documentation, right?

Martin Willis, Podcast UFO: I mean, it says like I, what I said about your theory. It's as good as any of the others, you know, it really is. It's, uh, you know, because anyone that says they know what these things are, you want to run away from those people.

Chad: Right. But I would think that if, um, people at the high levels of the intelligence community and the DOD have written these theories down in official papers that Grush is saying he's reviewed.

That there's more to it than just, you know, idiot Chad on the basement hangout podcast like they, cause they have a lot of smart people behind them and you know, but what it means is, and I've always said this though, the nature of our reality is so much different than what we perceive on a daily basis with our five senses.

Martin Willis, Podcast UFO: I'm, I'm right there with you. You know, our spectrum sees a very small amount of what's around us. I forget what the percentage is, but all our senses, there may be things all around us that we don't even realize that are here.

Chad: Right. You know, crazy to think of. Yeah. And you know, this opens the doors to so many different, um, possibilities.

And that's one of the reasons why I'm frustrated that there's basically no reaction from, you know, what I would call the mainstream or the normies or whatever you want to call it. Yeah. You know?

Martin Willis, Podcast UFO: Yeah. Yeah, it is, it is frustrating. And, and, um, you know, I don't know what, I don't know what it will take. You know, uh, you know, I have hopes that the person that I'm going to interview is going to maybe open more doors.

And that's what I, that's what I'm seeing that's. That is happening. You know, more people are feeling comfortable talking about this. I had, uh, uh, an admiral on recently that is feeling comfortable now about speaking on the UFO, the U. S. O. That's, um, unidentified submerged objects. Um, so he was on my show and he's.

He was also on the front row of the at the hearing in the seats that I was in. So it's like, um, people like him are starting to feel comfortable and putting their research resources to work, which is going to be a snowball effect. And I do believe that. I believe now, I know people have been around a long time.

I have a good friend, Chris Lambright. He's been looking at this since the 1970s, uh, and in a very serious way. And, you know, he's been disappointed so many times over the years, things just seem like they're going to happen. And then they don't. Right. And, uh, so, but I do believe that this time the momentum is really strong.

I do believe that. And, um, I think that we are definitely moving forward and that there is going to be, um, more people coming out. And I think there's going to be. Hopefully, there's going to be firsthand witnesses that brush has, uh, spoken with that has seen these things firsthand and no knows where they're at.

Chad: Yeah. And I want to say that, um, for brush coming out, doing the interview with cold heart and then going in front of Congress. You know, if he was having threats and, and he said during the, during the hearings that some of the things that he and his wife saw were astonishing or disturbing is the word he used.

And I, I assume what he means is the threats that he received and the kind of backlash he received was disturbing, which sounds bad. But it seems to me that what he's done by coming out and testifying is the best thing he could have done for himself. Yes.

Martin Willis, Podcast UFO: And they say the best thing to do is talk.

Chad: Right.

Because now you can't do. And you know, I don't want to, I don't want to get too dark here, but you can't murder him, for example, because now everybody's going to know that it's all true, right? All of a sudden his car goes off the rails somewhere and he's, he's dead in a ditch. Well, everybody's going to know what happened.

And so that that option is off the table now, you know what I mean? So now it would have to be discrediting.

Martin Willis, Podcast UFO: And that's what seems to be happening or right off the bat, uh, Kirkpatrick was seemingly discrediting him. I don't know if you read the letter. I didn't actually. Yeah. All right. So I'll just, I'll just try to highlight a couple of things here that, uh, Sean Kirkpatrick wrote, uh, the hearings and transparency.

Transparency. And this was, uh, the day after. Of the congressional hearing, and he says, let me begin by saying that the following are my own personal observations and opinions, which do not necessarily represent the D. O. D. or I. C. positions. Well, as my friend Chris put it, well, they should. They should, because you're heading it, so any that seems very personal.

And there shouldn't be any personal feelings hurt or anything like this, because it has. It should be more seen with more like a business. Flare than, uh, you know, personal in any type of way. Yeah, absolutely. He continues on yesterday, the subcommittee on national security, the border and foreign affairs held an open hearing on UAP during which the government cover up of extraterrestrials was alleged.

I wholeheartedly applaud congressional efforts to get to the truth of what UAP are and the risks of both safety and national security. I'm also absolutely committed to transparency on both. Transparency on both the historical mission and the operational mission as the director of arrow. It's amazingly talented, devoted.

He's using a lot of words here, talented, devoted and highly motivated team. They're really motivated. They haven't changed. Their website in the year. Also, uh, however, I cannot let yesterday's hearing pass without sharing how insulting it was to the officers of the Department of Defense and intelligence community who chose to join arrow and many, which not with unreasonable anxieties about their career risks would entail.

They have been working diligently, timelessly and often in the face of harassment.

Ity. To satisfy the congressionally mandated mission. They are true seekers as I, but you can certainly would not get that impression from yesterday's hearing. And it basically goes on that it was, uh, that he, um, alleged that there were witnesses, uh, retaliation. And hints of murder, et cetera, et cetera. And basically.

Um, they, they talk, he talks later about being able to be, you know, contacted with eyewitnesses and things like that. But you go on their website and you try to find out how to contact. There's absolutely no way that any type of witness can contact them. So this to me just seems like a whole bunch of window dressing and doesn't seem to have any real depth to it.

So I don't have any high hopes for arrow. I think it's, I don't know what it is, but you know, we had project blue book and that was, they were supposed to deflate everything. And I, I just kind of have the feeling that this is more of the same.

Chad: So I found somebody who posted the rest of the letter. I wanted to read the very last paragraph because this is, this is it right.

Finally, to be clear. Aero has yet to find any credible evidence to support the allegations of any reverse engineering program for non-human technology. Also, to be clear, none of the whistleblowers from yesterday's hearing ever worked for A A R O or was ever a representative to A A R O, contrary to statements made in testimony and in the media.

So what he's saying there is David Grush at some point said that he was. Essentially assigned to arrow, at least to help out.

Martin Willis, Podcast UFO: No, he wasn't. He was. See, this is all semantics. They changed their name from the UAP task force. Right? And that's what he was involved in. So Kirkpatrick can freely say that without lying, but it's a lie.

Right? He actually did, but he was working with the UAP task force. Not, not what it morphed into arrow. Uh, you know, so that's just his way of getting around into making it seem like it didn't happen.

Chad: So when he says we don't have evidence of the reverse engineering, but has he talked to Grush, you know what I mean?

Martin Willis, Podcast UFO: Well, here's the other thing, you know, uh, there is a line where David Grush has asked that question and he's saying, I know what those witnesses provided. To arrow, because I have talked to them and I know what they provided. So he basically said that Kirkpatrick, his statement is not an accurate statement.

Chad: So yeah, it's very interesting playing devil's advocate here. Let's say that that quote I mentioned earlier from Elizondo is what's going on here and the government. Okay. So they produce a new stealth bomber, right? Because we have adversaries, China, Russia, et cetera, et cetera. And they can't just come out and be like, Oh, look at our new stealth bomber.

And here's how it works. They have to keep it secret. We want certain things to be secret in order to maintain our advantage as the good guys. Right. So is it possible? That it is not all, you know, we have people, experiencers or whatever, that'll talk about how the aliens are just great. And, you know, they wish the best for us, but is it possible that there's knowledge that they're not, maybe they're not evil, but maybe they are just, you know, nothing, they don't care about us.

We're like an anthill. And the DOD and et cetera are trying to make sure that, you know, we batten the hatches for if they ever decide to take an air gun to our anthill, you know what I mean?

Martin Willis, Podcast UFO: Very well could be, uh, you know, I mean, there are, there are theories that, you know, I mean, they're just waiting for us to, uh, get to a point, um, where they could, you know, feel it's time to take over.

You know, there are theories. What again, um, you know, I'm not going to let it keep me up at night. It's it's, uh, there's no, if that's the case, there's no control we have over it. I just, if I'm going to die, I want it to be painless. That's all right. Me too.

Chad: I don't want to see it happen.

Martin Willis, Podcast UFO: Yeah, no, but I mean, that worrying about it isn't going to get us anywhere, you know, I mean, that is a possibility.

It seems like if they wanted to do that, they would have done it by now, but not necessarily.

Chad: Right, but let me throw this out there because if that is what it is. Then what Grush is doing is actually wrong. Think about that.

Martin Willis, Podcast UFO: Oh, right. He's pushing it forward. You mean,

Chad: well, I mean, if there are certain things we need to keep secret for a very good reason, then I'll give you an example.

Edward Snowden. I don't know where you stand on this. And you know, people have different politics, but he basically released to the world, the technical capabilities that the NSA had in the realm of cyber where warfare, everybody thought that Russia and China were handing our asses to us. No, it turned out that we were handing their asses to them on a daily basis and he divulged the tools that we had.

And I would say that that's not a good thing. Because we don't want to lose to China or Russia. I don't. So Edward Snowden in certain circles are, you know, he's a hero. Meanwhile, he's living in Russia. So I don't know what that tells you.

Martin Willis, Podcast UFO: Well, I've, I've spent a lot of time in Russia and that's, it's no place I'd want to live.

He does not want to be there. Right. Uh, if you've ever spent time there, there's a reason why, you know, Russians like to move to America. Right. It's not an easy, it's not an easy life there. I have mixed feelings about what he did. I think that it was really a good thing to expose how they are combing through all of our texts and all of our email.

We should know that. I mean, that's, that's our privacy rights are, you know, in the, in the name of. Uh, you know, the possible terrorists coming through, Hey, look, if they catch a terrorist, uh, because they're looking at all my texts and emails. Good. I don't care. But, um, I think it's a little, I think we have no control over, uh, he, he made it obvious that we have no control over what is happening to our privacy.

Chad: Yeah, no, I, I understand what you're saying. Um, I do think that there are some controls in place. Uh, we don't know exactly how everything goes down. They're supposed to have to go to the FISA courts and we can, we can go down the rabbit hole on this, but, um, I'm just playing devil's advocate. Uh, you know, imagine that this was the equivalent of that.

The government knows something about the aliens that we don't, that is maybe not good, and they're trying to, you know, work towards some kind of advantage we can have. If they do go, you know, independence day on us, which seems unlikely in very Hollywood because why wouldn't they have done it already? You know what I mean?

Martin Willis, Podcast UFO: But yeah, yeah. Well, yeah, I don't know. It's, it's awful hard to say. Uh, you know, I mean, I, I, you know, this would only be speculation. I don't feel like that is the case. Um, you know, I, I spoke with, uh, years ago before I was even into this topic, I had an insurance broker sold me a life insurance policy. I'm saying back in the early 1990s and uh, well,

Chad: you obviously outlived that one, huh?

You outlived that one. That's for sure

Martin Willis, Podcast UFO: So but in the conversation he's at my house and we get into this conversation and uh He says well, what do you what do you do ever hear anything about ufos or any? I don't know how the conversation came up. I can't remember exactly how he broke the ice with it But uh, he said, you know, basically that he was in a special task force In the Vietnam war, and it was very specialized and it was basically looking into the threat of UFOs and I said, really, you know, tell me more about it.

And he says, yes, they're very interested in our warheads. Uh, there's a lot going on. And he says, and they were very active. Uh, during the Vietnam, you know, conflict, and I found out later that that is truth. A lot of things did happen in Vietnam, especially like during napalming and things like that. And that's exactly what this guy told me.

So I said to him, uh, does the government know that they're, they're real? And he says, yes, the government knows the real. And I said, well, what, what are they, what, what do they want? You know, of course, all the questions you'd normally ask. And he says, we're, we're a Petri dish, right? And I, I said, really, he said, yes, we're being observed like a Petri dish.

I believe that.

Chad: Yeah.

Martin Willis, Podcast UFO: I believe that we're seated here, you know, and we're an experiment. Are we on the Truman show? What's going on?

Chad: I think that's why we're seeing these probes. I mean, I, you know, obviously I have no evidence or anything, but these all of a sudden, these metallic looking anywhere from three feet diameter to 12 feet diameter probes that are.

Orbs that obviously they have no propulsion system. They're not using, um, you know, what we know traditionally you need wings, you know, to lift, provide lift in the air and all that kind of stuff. They don't have any of that kind of stuff and they're flying around. They're in our conflict zones. We've seen that video that ARO even put out.

Yeah, I think they're watching. I think they're just watching us and I, you know, I, I do wonder if the whole theory of evolution. And the whole theory of intelligent design, both of those things are out the window and we were seated. Yeah, I mean, I really have to wonder that very well could be, you know,

Martin Willis, Podcast UFO: when I was in high school, I wrote a paper along those lines.

Yeah. And I got an a on it. It was an essay basically, and I didn't get a lot of days back then. And, uh. Uh, you know, basically that's how I said, this is why we have different races, you know, we're from different planets seated here, you know, basically along those lines and I wasn't even into the UFO topic or anything like that.

I just, you know, it was just something that came up with, but, um, who knows? I mean, that's, you know, I mean, and, you know, how this earth could have been, uh, we could have had vulcanizations along the way where. You know that even, uh, fossils from, uh, you know, millions of years ago, they show up now, but there could have been something even earlier, you know, because when you go back the age of this planet, it's hard to hard to understand the numbers.

What 4 billion years is right. You know, uh, it's really a long time. Yeah, absolutely. And, uh, things could have happened and developed and then, you know, there could have been a cat catastrophe of some magnitude that would have saved. We were hit by, uh, an asteroid and the whole planet melted like lava and then resettled and re, you know, the whole thing started over again.

Who knows what could happen in 4 billion years? Yeah.

Chad: Yeah, for sure. Now we had a guy on our, I'll wrap it up with this, but. We had a guy on the show the other day, he's kind of an existentialist, um, agnostic. So he's, you know, he's got a different way of thinking about things. And he, he was saying that we are approaching a singularity from a multiple from a multitude of angles.

Where you've got, you know, a brink of world war three. If you think about what's going on with Russia and everything and Ukraine and, you know, Russia's at some point backed into a corner there, if they're going to lose that thing, you've got, what's going on with China, you've got us generals saying that we'll be in a war with, with, uh, China.

By 2024 or 2025, you've got the climate stuff that's going on. And I don't know where you stand on that, uh, with regards to we're breaking all records, it's super hot everywhere. You've got the UFO disclosure going on all at the same time. You've got this crazy inflation that we're kind of seeing with the economy and.

You know, his point was we're reaching a singularity and something big is going to happen soon. Now there have been people who have been proclaiming something big is going to happen every year for the last thousand years, obviously. Right. So I don't know if this is just another blip on the radar or we really are approaching something, but you know, your thoughts.

Martin Willis, Podcast UFO: Yeah, well, it does it does feel it does feel that way. And, you know, I mean, we are we, I feel as though we are probably in trouble with our climate. I don't know if we're gone. Beyond the turning point of, but, you know, I mean, things are getting harsher and more, you know, the, and it's going to keep growing.

There's going to be, you know, bigger hurricanes and, you know, the more the water temperature heats up, you know, off the coast of. Florida, it's been over 100 degrees several days, many days in a row, which means marine life is starting to die off. You know, it's all, it's all, uh, really scary. And our, our, uh, our life source really is being attacked in every which way.

The bleaching of the coral reefs, um, you know, without, uh, plankton, you know, when you lose all these little things, honeybees and all that stuff. And we're, we're pretty much. We could be pretty much screwed. We could be a part of a mass extinction, which, you know, we're not too big to fail.

Chad: More, more conjecture.

Maybe that's why they're showing up more often these days. Yeah, could be. They could also be saying, well, our experiment failed time to pick up and leave.

Martin Willis, Podcast UFO: Yeah, that's right. Time to take over. Yeah.

Chad: All right, Martin. I want to thank you very much for coming on and my pleasure. I do want to tell you that you're, this is your third appearance.

You, you mentioned that earlier. There's only two other people that have been on our show. Three times. Preston Dennett has been on like 20 times. Yes. Preston Dennett. Correct. And the water bringer. Have you heard the water bringer? No, you're in good company, my friend. Ah,

Martin Willis, Podcast UFO: that's great. Well, thank you.